Julie, it wasn't too soon. It was a good way to begin to get in touch with our feelings and to begin to articulate them. I have come to believe all important conversations are dangling conversations (taken from Simon & Garfunkel's playbook), conversations that keep an openness for continuing the conversation in the future. Thank you for helping us find our voice and begin to get in touch with our feelings well enough that we can start to determine what our next step is; bringing us a tad closer to dealing with our deep grief in a constructive way.
The CR Gazette again publishes an opinion piece from New York Daily News. Brave, given the portion of Iowa that supported Trump, some with the glee that should have been reserved for the reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln.
Trump may have the will to trash and deport every brown-skinned person, but his golf schedule limits his presidential availability.
That’s why he has elevated his most evil sycophant, Stephen Miller, to handle the purge. Single-handedly, if necessary. Miller is that determinatively evil.
I cite as my authority, Jean Guerrero’s fine book HATE MONGER, which traces the childhood, radicalization, and eventual sycoptantacation in the Trump MAGA network. “Why do evil,” Trump asks, “when you can hire an expert to do it for you”?
The definition of America is summed up in the words “democratic pluralism” (think of the words on the Statue of Liberty). White nationalists think differently. And pray. Then act. Small acts of resistance add up. Find friends who will help.
Although it was painful, at times, to listen to the recording of this call it was helpful to me in figuring out how to process my feelings about the election. I may start keeping a diary as a means of coping and, as Laura stated, “documenting the atrocities.”
The Kettering Foundation 's primary interest is inspiring and connecting individuals and organizations to advance thriving and inclusive democracies around the globe. We believe all people belong and have the right to engage in and shape a democracy that serves them.
Our minister who is in an African American serving an all white rural church. Is a dynamic preacher, but his sermon was too soon - as well. Our church has been hit by a firestorm - of leaving, threats, - https://www.facebook.com/100064250906779/videos/1621217362083735 I'm a liberal life long rural guy and chairman of church council. I'll likely have threats myself before we work through this. Jesus rather liberal kind of guy, a woke gospel message - best not preached in these times
Calling out disinformation or misinformation may be offensive to some, but the US is now overrun by people who have disregard for pluralism in American democracy. Check out author Jean Guerrero, author of Hatemonger: Stephen Miller, Donald Trump, and the White Nationalist Agenda. This "white nationalism" is an area where I won't find common ground.
I now add the word "courage" as a key benefit to the valuable connections I have made by being part of this group. Thank you. (Missed the call because I was out of town at a meeting.)
I would say it is sadly naive to think Trump supporters even want peace. Their type has been trying to redo the civil war since they lost the last one. Their goal is to inflame and provoke. Not all of them, of course. Maybe not even most - but the vocal ones, certianly. The ones who are prepared to argue are prepared because they have abandoned good faith. They have been enraged by the myth that civilization is leaving them behind and so want to end civilization as we know it to create a bastardized version where enlightenment gets no quarter while loyalty to Trump is enforced as the only measure of validation.
Fortunately, there is actually a very easy solution. And that is to ignore them. Eject them quickly from the conversation as the bad faith trolls that they are. Giving them attention doesn't help anything at all but their ego. You aren't going to get them to take responsibility when they are shown to be wrong. You aren't going to convince anyone that you have won an argument with them. To them it is 100% a free opportunity to bully and gloat. Giving them even a second of your platform is all cost with no benefit.
I was mostly talking about strangers. Family is a different beast and sadly I think the wish to keep a family together in cases like this is often one sided. The Trump supporters tend to view their kids not as people but as subordinates. They are at peace with "firing" their own kids if they fail to follow orders. The interest in maintaining familial bonds is not reciprocated and wont function as currency in a negotiation or argument. They want a more primal and competitive world. Cooperation has been thoroughly demonized by right wing media and family bonds are in many ways a manifestation of cooperation. Trump supporting people have simply given up on cooperation as a concept. Transactional relationships only..
Of course it's easy for me to say because I haven't spoken to my parents in several decades. But they aren't going to feel more alone if you leave and they aren't going to feel better if you try not to leave. They are completely captivated by the alternate reality and that's not something anyone can do anything about..
RE: "We all have people in our lives with whom we disagree. Families are split, relationships have been severed. Is it possible to find harmony in a dissonant world?"
Here's the thing, it's not "with whom we disagree." People who voted for and support Trump are literally supporting an adjudicated rapist, a convicted felon and someone who urged his supporters to attempt to stop the peaceful transition of power after an election.
Each of those on its own is disgusting and disqualifying. Ignoring all three and installing a morally bankrupt criminal into the highest elected office in the land is not a "oh get over it" issue.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to have a "let's move on" kumbaya moment with racist, rapist, criminal enablers. In fact, just typing that sentence out SOUNDS INSANE.
I - and many others who remember what America can and should be - are not going to forgive, forget and move on any time soon. Nor should we.
Calmly, patiently but persistently sticking to a very basic mantra: IT IS NOT POLITICS. It is about character. As I noted in the column I wrote last week, I've known Trump was a garbage human since the 1980s when he was allegedly a Democrat from NYC.
I find that Trump supporters have virtually no defense for that other than lame whataboutisms. At which point I again calmly, patiently explain that we aren't talking about others, but we are talking about Donald Trump who by every single metric ever conceived is wildly unqualified for public office.
I would add, the hardest thing to do is to remain calm, even-keeled and patient. That, for those who know me, is not easy! But it is critical. I think Laura Belin has it right - calmly, methodically and with as little expression of rage as possible document, comment on and lament the terrible decisions and awful policies that are rolling out.
Not so far for me - but I will admit I have very few pro-Turmp people in my immediate orbit. I was raised in a liberal college town, went to college in a liberal college town, spent most of my career in media, now live in a fairly liberal neighborhood in one of Iowa's largest cities and work for a public university. So it is fair to say I am firmly ensconced in a pretty blue bubble.
Trump will give Netanyahu free rein to raze Gaza to the ground, occupy the West Bank and finish off the Palestinian independence movement once and for all.
A mistake, of course. There are quite a few things that could have been improved upon with hindsight. I wish we could see along the corner., to avoid missteps.
Thanks, Julie Gammack, for everything you said.
Thanks, Mary!
Julie, it wasn't too soon. It was a good way to begin to get in touch with our feelings and to begin to articulate them. I have come to believe all important conversations are dangling conversations (taken from Simon & Garfunkel's playbook), conversations that keep an openness for continuing the conversation in the future. Thank you for helping us find our voice and begin to get in touch with our feelings well enough that we can start to determine what our next step is; bringing us a tad closer to dealing with our deep grief in a constructive way.
Well said, Diana. Thanks!
The CR Gazette again publishes an opinion piece from New York Daily News. Brave, given the portion of Iowa that supported Trump, some with the glee that should have been reserved for the reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln.
https://cedarrapidsgazette-ia.newsmemory.com/?publink=0fa251c4a_134d4fe
Trump may have the will to trash and deport every brown-skinned person, but his golf schedule limits his presidential availability.
That’s why he has elevated his most evil sycophant, Stephen Miller, to handle the purge. Single-handedly, if necessary. Miller is that determinatively evil.
I cite as my authority, Jean Guerrero’s fine book HATE MONGER, which traces the childhood, radicalization, and eventual sycoptantacation in the Trump MAGA network. “Why do evil,” Trump asks, “when you can hire an expert to do it for you”?
The definition of America is summed up in the words “democratic pluralism” (think of the words on the Statue of Liberty). White nationalists think differently. And pray. Then act. Small acts of resistance add up. Find friends who will help.
Thanks for sharing!
Some how, commenting permission was ended for this post. I think its turned back on.
I listened to the audio. It would be nice if people introduced and said names so we audio-only know who's speaking.
Good idea.
Although it was painful, at times, to listen to the recording of this call it was helpful to me in figuring out how to process my feelings about the election. I may start keeping a diary as a means of coping and, as Laura stated, “documenting the atrocities.”
Great idea!
During my working life I was associated with the National Issues Forums, an organization associated with the Kettering Foundation in Dayton OH. NIF sponsors forums and trains moderators to hold forums called "deliberation." https://www.nifi.org/en/deliberation NIF also publishes "issue books" or guides for a deliberation. One from last year "Coming to America: Who Should We Welcome? What Should We Do?" https://www.nifi.org/en/catalog/product/everyones-immigration-forum-powerpoint-online-forums
The Kettering Foundation 's primary interest is inspiring and connecting individuals and organizations to advance thriving and inclusive democracies around the globe. We believe all people belong and have the right to engage in and shape a democracy that serves them.
Did America Just Vote to End Democracy? Making Sense of the 2024 Election https://kettering.org/tag/from-many-we/
Our minister who is in an African American serving an all white rural church. Is a dynamic preacher, but his sermon was too soon - as well. Our church has been hit by a firestorm - of leaving, threats, - https://www.facebook.com/100064250906779/videos/1621217362083735 I'm a liberal life long rural guy and chairman of church council. I'll likely have threats myself before we work through this. Jesus rather liberal kind of guy, a woke gospel message - best not preached in these times
“Belin told me she has decided her role is not to try to get along with the other side but to ‘document the atrocities.’”
Same. Batteries are in the charger, memory cards are formatting, pens are full of ink. I’m watching.
Calling out disinformation or misinformation may be offensive to some, but the US is now overrun by people who have disregard for pluralism in American democracy. Check out author Jean Guerrero, author of Hatemonger: Stephen Miller, Donald Trump, and the White Nationalist Agenda. This "white nationalism" is an area where I won't find common ground.
I now add the word "courage" as a key benefit to the valuable connections I have made by being part of this group. Thank you. (Missed the call because I was out of town at a meeting.)
*was not on the call
I’m glad I want on the call. I probably would have smashed my phone.
Yeah.
I would say it is sadly naive to think Trump supporters even want peace. Their type has been trying to redo the civil war since they lost the last one. Their goal is to inflame and provoke. Not all of them, of course. Maybe not even most - but the vocal ones, certianly. The ones who are prepared to argue are prepared because they have abandoned good faith. They have been enraged by the myth that civilization is leaving them behind and so want to end civilization as we know it to create a bastardized version where enlightenment gets no quarter while loyalty to Trump is enforced as the only measure of validation.
Fortunately, there is actually a very easy solution. And that is to ignore them. Eject them quickly from the conversation as the bad faith trolls that they are. Giving them attention doesn't help anything at all but their ego. You aren't going to get them to take responsibility when they are shown to be wrong. You aren't going to convince anyone that you have won an argument with them. To them it is 100% a free opportunity to bully and gloat. Giving them even a second of your platform is all cost with no benefit.
What about families?
I was mostly talking about strangers. Family is a different beast and sadly I think the wish to keep a family together in cases like this is often one sided. The Trump supporters tend to view their kids not as people but as subordinates. They are at peace with "firing" their own kids if they fail to follow orders. The interest in maintaining familial bonds is not reciprocated and wont function as currency in a negotiation or argument. They want a more primal and competitive world. Cooperation has been thoroughly demonized by right wing media and family bonds are in many ways a manifestation of cooperation. Trump supporting people have simply given up on cooperation as a concept. Transactional relationships only..
Of course it's easy for me to say because I haven't spoken to my parents in several decades. But they aren't going to feel more alone if you leave and they aren't going to feel better if you try not to leave. They are completely captivated by the alternate reality and that's not something anyone can do anything about..
RE: "We all have people in our lives with whom we disagree. Families are split, relationships have been severed. Is it possible to find harmony in a dissonant world?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the thing, it's not "with whom we disagree." People who voted for and support Trump are literally supporting an adjudicated rapist, a convicted felon and someone who urged his supporters to attempt to stop the peaceful transition of power after an election.
Each of those on its own is disgusting and disqualifying. Ignoring all three and installing a morally bankrupt criminal into the highest elected office in the land is not a "oh get over it" issue.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to have a "let's move on" kumbaya moment with racist, rapist, criminal enablers. In fact, just typing that sentence out SOUNDS INSANE.
I - and many others who remember what America can and should be - are not going to forgive, forget and move on any time soon. Nor should we.
Tory, what are you doing about personal and family relationships around the divide?
Calmly, patiently but persistently sticking to a very basic mantra: IT IS NOT POLITICS. It is about character. As I noted in the column I wrote last week, I've known Trump was a garbage human since the 1980s when he was allegedly a Democrat from NYC.
I find that Trump supporters have virtually no defense for that other than lame whataboutisms. At which point I again calmly, patiently explain that we aren't talking about others, but we are talking about Donald Trump who by every single metric ever conceived is wildly unqualified for public office.
I would add, the hardest thing to do is to remain calm, even-keeled and patient. That, for those who know me, is not easy! But it is critical. I think Laura Belin has it right - calmly, methodically and with as little expression of rage as possible document, comment on and lament the terrible decisions and awful policies that are rolling out.
And, what happens in the conversation at that point? Does it end the relationship?
Not so far for me - but I will admit I have very few pro-Turmp people in my immediate orbit. I was raised in a liberal college town, went to college in a liberal college town, spent most of my career in media, now live in a fairly liberal neighborhood in one of Iowa's largest cities and work for a public university. So it is fair to say I am firmly ensconced in a pretty blue bubble.
Trump will give Netanyahu free rein to raze Gaza to the ground, occupy the West Bank and finish off the Palestinian independence movement once and for all.
Congrats on your protest vote though.
What?!?!?
I agree 100% that wiping out Gaza women, children and elderly and noncombatants to kill the Hamas has proven to be indefensible.
A mistake, of course. There are quite a few things that could have been improved upon with hindsight. I wish we could see along the corner., to avoid missteps.